Tag Archives: action

Save the Date for Unbounce’s Call to Action Conference 2017 [Discount Code Inside]

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I know you’re busy, so let’s cut to the chase.

Unbounce’s Call to Action Conference is back on June 25th – June 27th in beautiful Vancouver, Canada.

What’s in it for you?

First off, we’ve carefully curated a star-studded speaker lineup that includes the likes of Mari Smith, Scott StrattenKindra Hall and Rand Fishkin. See the full agenda here. (Fun fact: We made a pledge to have 50% female speakers this year, and we stuck to it.)

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Additionally, unlike other conferences where you’re torn between tracks, this conference is single-track. No need to miss a thing or weigh up your love for PPC or CRO. You can have it all and bring back stellar takeaways to your team on each of their respective specialities. #Teamplayer

We’re also working closely with our speakers to ensure talks are as actionable as possible. (This is our conference’s promise).

Explore the topics below to see featured talks and get a sense for the ones most exciting to you:

PPC
SEO
Copywriting
Social
CRO

Jonathan Dane — The PPC Performance Pizza

Jonathan DaneIn this session, Johnathan will cover 8 ways to make any PPC channel work with positive ROI. He’ll guide you through a simple framework, The PPC Performance Pizza, that will double performance on any PPC channel, from Google Adwords to Facebook.

You’ll learn:

  • How to use search, social, display, and video PPC to your advantage
  • Which channels and offers work best in tandem for more conversions
  • The frameworks KlientBoost uses to double your performance within 90 days

Rand Fishkin — The Search Landscape In 2017

Rand FishkinMuch has changed (and is changing) in SEO, leaving us with an uncertain future. In this talk, the one and only Rand Fishkin will share his view on the search landscape 2017, dive into data on how users behave in search engines, explain what the election of Donald Trump means to site owners and, most importantly provide you with the essential tactics every marketer should embrace to be prepared for the changes.

You’ll learn:

  • How has search behavior changed and what does it mean for marketers seeking organic search traffic
  • What new tactics and strategies are required to stay ahead of the competition in SEO
  • How might new US government policies affect the web itself and future platform and web marketing opportunities

Amy Harrison — The Customer Disconnect: How Inside-Out Copy Makes You Invisible

Amy HarrisonWhen you write copy, there are 3 critical elements: What you KNOW about your product, what you WRITE about your product, and what your customer THINKS you mean. Unfortunately, it’s too easy to have a disconnect between all three, and when that happens, customer’s don’t realize the true value of what you have to offer. In this talk, you’ll identify any disconnect in your own marketing, and learn how to write copy that breaks through the noise, differentiates your brand, and speaks to your customers’ desires.

You’ll learn:

  • How to recognize if you even HAVE a disconnect
  • How to beat the blank page – know what to include for every piece of copy you create
  • How to make even commoditized products sound different and fresh to your customer

Mari Smith — Winning Facebook Advertising Strategies: 5 Powerful Ways To Leverage Your Results & ROI

Mari SmithFacebook is constantly adding new features, new products and new ad units. What works today and what’s a waste of time and money? How should marketing teams, agencies and brands focus their ad spend for maximum results? In this dynamic session, world-renowned Facebook marketing expert, Mari Smith, will answer these questions and more.

You’ll learn:

  • Simple processes for maximizing paid reach to build a steady flow of top qualified leads
  • How to make your Facebook advertising dollars go much further, and generate an even higher ROI
  • The top ten biggest mistakes marketers make with their Facebook ads and how to fix them

Michael Aagaard – Your Brain Is Lying To You: Become A Better Marketer By Overcoming Confirmation Bias

Michael AagaardHave you ever resisted or ignored a piece of info because it posed a threat to your worldview? If you answered “yes,” you’re like most other human beings on the planet. In fact, according to the last 40 years of cognitive research, favouring information confirming your worldview is extremely common human behaviour. Unfortunately, being biased towards information confirming what we already believe often leads to errors in judgment and costly mistakes in marketing. But how can we overcome this?

You’ll learn:

  • The facts about confirmation bias and why it is such a dangerous pitfall for marketers
  • A framework for becoming aware of and overcoming your own confirmation bias
  • Hands-on techniques for cutting through the clutter and getting information rather than confirmation

Did we mention the workshops?

We’re bringing back workshops (see Sunday’s tab on the agenda) and we’ve tailored the topics based on your feedback. We’ll be talking hyper-targeted overlays, how agencies can leverage landing pages and getting people to swipe right on your landing page. The best part? They’re all included in your ticket price. Most importantly, marketers who purchase CTAConf tickets, get notified first once registration for workshops opens. Workshops were standing room only last year and we’re bringing them back bigger than ever, so first dibs on registration’s a real bonus.

Finally, we want you to have a ton of fun while you learn. We’re talkin’ 8 food trucks, incredible after parties, all the dog hoodies you can handle, wacky activities and full access to the recordings of every session. SPOILER: we’re looking into renting a Ferris wheel (seriously, this is a thing).

Convinced? Grab your tickets here.

(Hey, blog reader. Yeah, you. We like you. Get 15% off ticket price when you use discount code blogsentme.” That’s cheaper than our early bird price.)

Want to see the excitement in action?

Here’s a peek at what we got up to last year:

The countdown is on

Regardless or whether you’re a PPC specialist, conversion copywriter, full-stack marketer or living that agency life, we’ve got something in store for you. Our workshops and talks touch on everything marketing: pay-per-click, agencies, copywriting, conversion rate optimization, landing page optimization, branding and storytelling, email marketing, customer success, search engine optimization and product marketing.

Check out the full agenda here.

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See you at the conference (and on that Ferris wheel)!

Grab your tickets here and remember to use discount code “blogsentme” at checkout for 15% off that ticket price!

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Save the Date for Unbounce’s Call to Action Conference 2017 [Discount Code Inside]

How Hotjar Gained 60+ New Trial Signups a Month with a Single Overlay

Hotjar’s content experiment with overlays is turning website visitors into new customers. Here’s how.

If you Google “Content is king,” here’s what you’ll find: More than 37 million Google results that justify how important content is online.

It’s a tired phrase, but it’s true. At Unbounce, for instance, our blog has been invaluable in growing our digital footprint and our business.

Every once in a while, you hear a story about someone who uses content to earn new customers and new revenue. And, they make it seem pretty easy (like “Why didn’t I think of that?”).

Well, Nick Heim, the Director of Inbound Marketing at Hotjar, has done just that. He offered website visitors an ebook at just the right time and in just the right way by using an overlay.

Overlays are modal lightboxes that launch within a webpage and focus attention on a single offer. Still fuzzy on what an overlay is? Click here.

Overlays, a type of Unbounce Convertables, allow you to show relevant offers to specific users at the perfect time, making them less likely to leave your website without converting.

By implementing a Convertable into his campaign, Nick isn’t just bringing in new leads, he’s actually turning website visitors into paying Hotjar users. So how’s he doing it?

Let’s start from the beginning

The TL;DR? Hotjar implemented a new Convertable on their pricing page, which resulted in new signups. The overlay offered visitors an ebook, The Hotjar Action Plan, in exchange for their first name and email address.

Hotjar Pricing Page Overlay

The overlay converted 408 visitors in the first three weeks, 75% of which were not existing Hotjar customers.

Once a visitor converted on the overlay they received an email from Hotjar right away. Non-customers received an email with the ebook as a PDF, along with an offer to try out Hotjar for an extended period of time.

Nick explains:

For non-users, we sent them a quick instant thank you email followup that contained the asset and offered a 30 day trial of the Hotjar Business Plan. This is double the trial length a new user would usually receive by signing up through our site.

Here’s what the actual email looks like:

Hotjar follow up email

Hotjar makes good use of the email they sent to preexisting customers, too. That variation contains the ebook as well as a simple question about what type of content they’d like to see — allowing Hotjar to continue delivering value to their customers. #winwin

The overlay strategy

The overlay Nick built was set to appear only to first-time visitors who are exiting the Hotjar pricing page.

According to Nick,

This was more of a visitor experience decision than anything. We didn’t want to come off as badgering visitors in the research phase [of the buying process].

Hotjar Convertable Setup
Setting trigger rules in the Unbounce builder.

So, did it work?

“Absolutely, we’re getting 60-70 new users per month as a result of the Convertable,” said Nick.

From the overlay, about 3% of page visitors convert on the page.

Hotjar Convertable Results

Of those that converted on the overlay, 75% were not current Hotjar customers and about 19% of the non-users who received their follow-up email with the PDF have become new Hotjar customers.

Already an Unbounce customer? Log into Unbounce and start using Convertables today at no extra cost.

Experimenting the Hotjar Way

Nick explained that his team at Hotjar hadn’t implemented overlays into their lead gen strategy before using the Unbounce Convertable; “this was a total experiment. We wanted to be able to nurture the new leads coming from different channels and bring them back.”

Nick pointed out that, “these things [overlays] can be used really wrong. You need to be careful and consider the human on the other end. Think about the entire process.”

For their experiment, Nick said, “[we didn’t have] hard goals, but we wanted to prove whether there was a case for using overlays.” Nick pointed out that it can be difficult to measure the negative effects of user experience — especially without a baseline to measure your results against.

“We wanted to see if the risk was worth the reward. We did get the quantitative results — which for us, measure better than industry standards.”

Hotjar’s Golden Rules for Using Overlays

Through this trial experience, Nick and his team at Hotjar established some general guidelines for using overlays. Nick shared his golden rule for delighting visitors with overlays (opposed to pestering them).

Start by asking yourself these questions:

First, is it appropriate to use an overlay in this part of the user journey?

If the answer is yes, ask yourself “What’s the least annoying way to accomplish that?” If the answer is no, don’t use it.

Second, “Does it solve the problem [website visitors] are looking to solve?” Nick emphasized that the offer on the overlay needs to align to the problem that people are trying to solve.

Finally, how do you know if you’re offering the right thing? Nick says, “Ask people! This is an awesome way to improve your content.”

Hotjar's golden rules for using overlays

Should you use Convertables?

Overlays give us marketers an opportunity to present the right people with the right offer at the right time. Of course, they can also be used to do the opposite, and, as Nick says, “you don’t want to leave someone with a bad taste in their mouth,”

Like any good data-driven marketer, you’re going to want to take it for a test drive. Like Hotjar, try experimenting with overlays to decide they’re a good fit. At the end of the day, it’s your customers and your brand that will decide if overlays work in your marketing strategy.

Originally posted here: 

How Hotjar Gained 60+ New Trial Signups a Month with a Single Overlay

Rand Fishkin’s 5 Simple Experiments for Improving SEO Health

Improve your site's SEO health
Content not ranking on Google? Nurse it back to SEO health with Rand’s five experiments. Image via Shutterstock.

What do you do to get fit, lose weight or improve your overall health? You snack on fewer candies and munch a few more salads. Maybe even hit the gym. Then you cross your fingers and hope to reap the fruits of your labor.

Us marketers tend to adopt a similar approach when working towards our goals. When we want to optimize our content for search, we may “stuff in a few keywords” and “add some internal and external links” to our website.

Somewhere down the line, we expect to see our website creep up in Google. It may… but it may not. And with all the time we spend crafting thoughtful content to drive our business objectives, what’s the point if NO ONE FINDS IT?

The reality is that we — fitness fanatics, marketers, hell, human beings —  assume we know what work is required to achieve our goals. But how can we be sure to get the results we want when our actions are based on what we think works rather than what we know works?

According to Rand Fishkin, co-founder of Inbound.org and self-proclaimed “Wizard of Moz,” the key to achieving results is to run experiments, track our work (not just our progress) and find out what helps get the results we want. And of course, reiterate on the work that brings success.

During his talk at the Call to Action Conference, Rand walked us through five simple SEO experiments that can help us measure the input that creates our desired results. And lucky for you, we walk you through each one below.

So, are you ready to improve your SEO health? On your marks, get set, GO!

Experiment 1: Bolster internal linking

SEO marketers from far and wide recognize that linking to various pages on your website can help improve your Google ranking. Someone lands on your website and will happily delve deeper and deeper through a clever web of internal links, all the while boosting your website’s credibility. Good times… right?

Well, it depends. We can’t just assume that stuffing our webpages willy nilly with internal links will push us up the ranks — even if it seemed to work a dream for someone else. We need to experiment to find out if and how internal linking affects our Google ranking.

Step 1. Choose the webpage you want to rank higher for (a.k.a. your target page). This may be an important page that currently isn’t ranking well. In Rand’s case, he wants his “Keyword research tool” page to rank higher.

Step 2. Decide which term(s) you want your target page to rank for in Google. Then bring up the pages on your website that Google considers to be the most important for this search term by searching in Google for [the term you want your target page to rank for] + [:] + [website name]. As per Rand’s example, he wants his target page to rank for “keyword research tool”. So he would run a search for [keyword research tool] + [:] + [moz.com]”, as per:

Slide from Rand Fishkin’s CTA Conf talk. Click for full size.

Step 3. Find out if you’ve already linked to the target page in these pages. If not, add a link:

Slide from Rand Fishkin’s CTA Conf talk. Click for full size.

Step 4. After a predefined amount of time (e.g., two weeks, one month, etc.), track the outcome. Did the target page’s rank drop, improve or stay the same?

If the specific action of adding internal links to your target page positively affects the page’s ranking, repeat the action to boost your other website pages.

Rand’s buddy Shaun Anderson from Hobo Web carried out this experiment over a month. Check out his results:

Slide from Rand Fishkin’s CTA Conf talk. Click for full size.

Just 10 days after he added internal links to his target page, the page shot up the rankings. And when he removed the links later on, it shot back down again.

Experiment 2: Create new content targeting long-tail keywords

Long-tail keywords are the new(ish) kid on the SEO block. They’re keywords of at least three words and are more specific than your regular keyword. Think “soccer boots for kids” rather than a simple “soccer boots”. They’ve also been proven to drive more qualified traffic to websites and therefore increase that all-important conversion rate.

You may have already started optimizing your webpages with these babies (brownie points to you). But it’s now time to start testing out their impact to see if they’re really improving your page rankings.

Step 1. Type in a keyword phrase you want to rank for into a keyword research tool such as Moz’s Keyword Explorer, Uber Suggest or Google Keyword Planner (you’ll need to set up a free account for the latter).

Step 2. Once the results are up, identify long-tail keywords that have low volume, low difficulty and high opportunity. You’re looking for a volume and difficulty level of anything less than around 30, and an opportunity level of 80+. In Rand’s example, “geek gadgets for her” and “cool unique electronic gifts” are good options.

Slide from Rand Fishkin’s CTA Conf talk. Click for full size.

Step 3. Create and publish helpful content that targets your chosen long-tail keywords. Use the keywords in the page headline and make sure your content directly relates to the keywords.

Step 4. Track the outcome over time. Hopefully, a couple of weeks or months down the line, you will see a result as good as this one:

long-tail2
Slide from Rand Fishkin’s CTA Conf talk. Click for full size.

Experiment 3: Turn mentions into links

If you’re doing good business, people are likely to be saying good things about your brand on the web. If these mentions don’t link to your website, you’re missing out on a prime backlinking opportunity, which can help boost your website’s SEO. Let’s see how you can turn simple brand chatter into into fuel for your search engine ranking.

Use Google’s date query ranges to research mentions of your company, brand or product on the web. (You could also invest in a tool like Mention, talkwalker or Moz’s Fresh Web Explorer to receive mention alerts.)

Step 1. In the Google search bar, enter the search terms you want to find mentions for. In his example, Rand searched for “keyword explorer moz”.

mentions1
Slide from Rand Fishkin’s CTA Conf talk. Click for full size.

Step 2. Next, tell Google how far back you want to search. Either select the date range from the drop down list (shown above), or manually enter the number of days by simply replacing the last number at the end of the URL:

mentions2
Slide from Rand Fishkin’s CTA Conf talk. Click for full size.

Step 3. In the pages that Google pulls up, look for keyword mentions that don’t link back to your website:

mentions3
Slide from Rand Fishkin’s CTA Conf talk. Click for full size.

Step 4. This next step requires a bit more creativity. To get that keyword backlinking to your site, you’ll need to contact the mentioner. You could email them or reach out to them on social media and ask them to link back to your website from these pages.

mentions4

Step 5. Once that backlink has been in place for a few weeks, have a look at your webpage’s ranking. Has it changed?

Experiment 4: Test new titles and headlines

Title element testing has shown to be a rather effective way to optimize web content for clicks. It’s definitely worth experimenting with these short but important nuggets of text. They can be the difference between a user clicking on a webpage or skimming past it, uninterested.

Step 1. Identify the pages of your website that use the templated language for titles and headlines, for example:

titles2
Slide from Rand Fishkin’s CTA Conf talk. Click for full size.

Step 2. It’s time to find out: Are people searching for the keywords in the headlines of these pages? Or are there more popular keywords you could use? Use a keyword planner tool to find the most commonly searched keywords related to your page topic.

titles3
Slide from Rand Fishkin’s CTA Conf talk. Click for full size.

Step 3. Update the pages in question with your new, more popular keywords.

Step 4. Analyse any changes after a predefined amount of time.

UK-based online marketing agency Distilled did this for their client concerthotels.com. They changed the title and H1 used across a bulk of webpages from:

Title: <<Location>> Hotels, NY | ConcertHotels.com

H1: <<Location>> Hotels

to:

Title: Hotels near <<Location>> Rochester, NY | ConcertHotels.com

H1: Hotels near <<Location>>

As the graph below shows us, they reaped some seriously impressive results:

titles1
Slide from Rand Fishkin’s CTA Conf talk. Click for full size.

Experiment 5:  Add related keywords to your pages

Think you can rank well for a keyword without any related keywords on the same page? Don’t underestimate the power of context, especially when dealing with Google. When you talk about SEO on your website, Google expects you to mention search engines, ranking, keywords, etc. Try adding some related keywords to your content and the search engine big dog may well thank you by upping your webpage’s ranking.

Step 1. Choose the webpage you want to optimize. Identify what the page is about and decide on the most fitting keyword.

Step 2. Find terms that Google associates with this keyword. Use a tool like nTopic or Moz’s related topics tool to get a list of related keywords.

relatedkeywords
Slide from Rand Fishkin’s CTA Conf talk. Click for full size.

Step 3. Work these new keywords into your webpage’s content, making sure that they sound natural when you read over the text.

Step 4. As always, make sure you measure your results! Has your webpage climbed the rankings after a few weeks or months?

Conclusion

No-one would deny that classic analytics — analyzing the results of our actions — is totally essential for tracking marketing progress. But when it comes to understanding which marketing actions work, we need a different approach.

We simply must stop assuming we know what work will help us achieve our goals. By not only measuring the results, but also experimenting and measuring the actions that you take, you can figure out exactly what you need to do to move the SEO needle, time and time again.

Follow this link – 

Rand Fishkin’s 5 Simple Experiments for Improving SEO Health

3 Smart Moves for eCommerce to Fuel Customer Engagement

It is not enough for eCommerce establishments to provide exceptional one-off experiences to their users. eCommerce enterprises have been increasingly working on improving customer engagement with a view to forming long-term and meaningful relationships.

Gallup’s report on customer engagement 2014 states that fully engaged customers represent an average 23% premium in terms of share of profitability, revenue, and relationship growth.

Interestingly, Gallup defines fully engaged customers as those who are both emotionally attached and rationally loyal. To achieve complete engagement, rational loyalty as well as emotional connections need to be leveraged. The influence of social web and its impact on engagement is another aspect toward which eCommerce enterprises need to pay significant attention.

In this blog post, we discuss the three key attributes—emotions, participation, and user behavior—that eCommerce enterprises should focus on to improve customer engagement.

Leveraging Emotions to Drive Engagement

eCommerce enterprises have started paying a lot more attention to whether their customers really associate with the brand and the ways in which they can connect with customers at a deeper emotional level. Dove’s real beauty campaign is a classic example of using emotions to drive engagement. The campaign tapped into the emotions of many women about themselves and their appearance. In their new campaign—#MyBeautyMySay, Dove wants women to define their beauty their own way. Through this campaign, Dove attempts to connect to the self-respect aspect, which many women believe is a “battle still to be won.”

Customer Engagement - Emotional Connection

Targeting Emotions for Customer Engagement

Developing deeper levels of emotional engagement with consumers also requires eCommerce enterprises to foster transparency and trust in customer relationship. Using social proof, trust seals, and reviews on the website creates a sense of trust among their users.

Using humor has a strong emotional appeal, and when used appropriately, never fails to make an impact. For example, Hublogix includes Betabrand in its list of eCommerce excellent marketing for humorous product descriptions on its website.

Using Humor for Customer Engagement
The question, however, is that how do you use customer emotions to take a preferred course of action? A post published on My Customer gives a five-point list on building emotional engagement. The post talks about the following list:

  1. Know what emotional triggers exist currently in your experience.
  2. Define what emotion you want your experience to evoke.
  3. Listen to your customers…a lot.
  4. Identify your customers’ subconscious experiences.
  5. Never stop improving the experience.

Improving Engagement through Participation

Another way to improve user engagement is by soliciting participation. Involve your buyers in product creation and innovation. Consider the example of Vans. The leading shoe brand encourages users to design their own pair of sneakers, using a customization feature.

User Participation for Customer Enagement

Moreover, to increase the engagement level of people who understand the nitty-gritty of the products, eCommerce enterprises can focus on co-creation. McKinsey talks about what brands who have mastered co-creation do to gain an edge over others. They researched more than 300 companies in three European countries and identified three key areas where those who lead at co-creation focused: targeting co-creators, finding the motivation, and focusing on a sustainable pay-off.

Leveraging social media for participation is another way through which eCommerce enterprises can drive more engagement and purchases. According to a 2016 Yotpo consumer survey, 72% of customers say that seeing Instagram photos of a product increases customers’ chances of buying. These numbers give eCommerce enterprises a good reason to invest in social curation for driving user engagement. One way of doing this is using shoppable images on your site—product page, home page, or a dedicated photo gallery page. ASOS makes a creative and engaging use of Instagram images shared by customers, by running the #AsSeenOnMe campaign on its website.

ASOS Customer Engagement with UGC

Warby Parker’s started its home try-on services in 2012. It was also smart of them to start a user-generated content (UGC) campaign for the same. Warby’s customers become a part of the campaign by sharing their photographs while trying the five pairs of Warby glasses and sharing it on their social media with the hashtag #WarbyHomeTryOn.

Forever21 has created a single hashtag for all content generated by its users. (The benefit of using just one hashtag is that people associate better with the brand as well as with the hashtag.) Forever21 has the campaign #F21XME featured on its website, which asks participants to upload their favorite F21 outfit on Instagram using the hashtag, and get a chance to be featured.

User Generated Content for Customer Engagement

Twitter Product pages are helping eCommerce enterprises solicit more meaningful engagement through social media. Twitter product pages are tweets that lead to shopping information about an item. A buy button is included for those who wish to buy.

Twitter Customer Engagement

This post on Sprinkler can be your guide to social commerce.

Leveraging User Behavior to Drive Engagement On-Site

We discussed earlier how emotional loyalty and participation can be leveraged to increase engagement. However, it is equally important for eCommerce enterprises to focus on increasing customer engagement from rationally loyal consumers, which can be done by providing them an enhanced on-site experience. Continuously improving users’ on-site experiences requires eCommerce enterprises to dig deep into user insights, identify and resolve pain points, and discover what interests or repels users. This can be done with the help of tools such as heatmaps, visitor recordings, and form analysis.

Visitor recordings play back the actual interactions that any user has had on your website. These insights can be used further to analyze or validate whether any element on the website can prove to be a distraction for the user. In a case study by VWO, about UKToolCenter, removing the product filter improved site engagement by 27%. Using visitor recordings, the hypothesis that the product was a distraction was easily validated.

Heatmaps highlight areas of maximum engagement on a website and also pinpoint dead zones. eCommerce enterprises can study low-engagement areas and suggest actionable improvements, which include:

A form analysis can be run for understanding how users interact with forms. This interaction allows you to fetch insights from drop-offs per field, time taken to fill the form, fields ignored, and so on. This data can be used further for fixing the pain points that users face, and optimize web forms for more engagement and conversions.

Feedback and insights gathered from on-page surveys can also be used for improving on-site user engagement. For example, if a user spends more than five minutes on a product page, a survey can be triggered to find out whether the user intends to buy something or is searching for something specific.

Conclusion

User engagement is not just about metrics that show us click-through rates or pages viewed in a session. For eCommerce enterprises, driving robust engagement constitutes:

  • Leveraging the emotional connection that consumers form with brands
  • Encouraging participation across the website and social channels
  • Deploying user behavior data and insights to track and improve on-site interactions

How are you driving meaningful engagement for your eCommerce enterprise? Drop a comment or feedback below.

cta_fuelCustomerEngagement

The post 3 Smart Moves for eCommerce to Fuel Customer Engagement appeared first on VWO Blog.

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3 Smart Moves for eCommerce to Fuel Customer Engagement

Simple Recipes for No-Fail Landing Page Copy [+ Free Downloadable Worksheet]

cake ingredients
Who knew landing pages and cake had so much in common? Image via Shutterstock.

In some ways, building a landing page is like baking a cake. Certain people prefer chocolate, and others like cream fillings, but there are some fundamental formulas (for both cakes and landing pages) that are tried and tested, and proven to produce positive results.

This post is a recipe for a solid vanilla sponge landing page. For advice on design (a.k.a. the buttercream frosting), check out these posts on user experience and essential design principles.

Here are the formulas we’ll cover in this post, using examples from great landing pages:

  • Action words + Product reference = Winning headline
  • Your exact offering + Promise of ease = Winning subheader
  • Your best offerings + Worded in the form of benefit statements + Appropriate sectioning = Winning body content
  • Active words + ‘I want to…’ + A/B testing = Winning call to action

Want to test the formulas out for yourself?

Download our FREE worksheet for creating no-fail landing page copy.
By entering your email you’ll receive weekly Unbounce Blog updates and other resources to help you become a marketing genius.

The header is always active — it wants you to do something. The header almost always directly references the product or service, as well. As Kurt Vonnegut said,

To hell with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages.

What are active words?

In the same way that active voice makes a sentence stronger by shifting focus onto the subject, active words help to promote action and create urgency. Active words in headers are usually verbs like build, get, launch, unlock, pledge, invest and give.

Here are a few examples of effective, action-led landing page headlines.

Codecademy winning headline
Codecademy’s headline is about as close to perfect as it gets.
Lyft winning headline
Lyft doesn’t use the “Get started” CTA we’ll talk about, but that headline is a winner.
Pro tip: To maximize your conversion efforts, ensure there’s message match between your click-through ad and headline.

Your exact offering + Promise of ease = Winning subheader

Your header is an active statement, introducing your product. Your subheader is the second wave, there to support the header and give visitors a reason to continue reading. In the subheader, you tell your audience exactly what you have to offer, and highlight how incredibly easy the whole process will be.

Easy as pie

Online, all it takes is a few taps and a few clicks to make a potentially big decision, but if it’s not easy, a lot of us won’t bother doing it. That’s especially true of a landing page, which is essentially a 24/7 elevator pitch for your business.

As a visitor to your landing page, I need to know if what you’re offering is going to benefit me, and that by handing over my details, you’re going to do most of the heavy lifting for me (at least to begin with.)

In our model for the no-fail landing page copy, the relationship between header and subheader looks like this:

Header: Introduces the idea or service in an active way (inspire your audience to do something).

Subheader: Backs up the header by giving a reason for your visitor to read on.

Outbrain winning subheader
Ooo, easy setup — just what we all love to see.

This example from Outbrain might not have the prettiest header or subheader, but both illustrate exactly what we’ve been talking about. The header is active, and so is the subheader, which tells you exactly what the main benefits of using Outbrain are, along with the promise of an easy setup.

Your best offerings + worded in the form of benefit statements + appropriate sectioning = Winning body content

The bulk of your landing page copy does the same job as the header and the subheader: it presents the benefits of your product to the user, and encourages them to act.

It’s tempting to go off-piste in the body content, to talk about your values and how you donate half of your profits to charity, but hold off. You need to make sure that your product is one your audience wants first. Stick to the benefits, and expand on those.

Break up your content

You’ll probably have more than one point to make on your landing page, but even if you don’t, breaking content up with headers and bullet points increases the chances of something catching your reader’s eye. It’s the equivalent of a supermarket arranging its products into categories and shelves, rather than bundling everything together in a big bargain bin.

With your body content, just like with your subheader, focus on what you have to offer, why it’s better than the competition’s and how you’ll do most of the heavy lifting should your prospect hand over their valuable email address. Let’s take a look at how MuleSoft connects header, subheader and body content.

Mulesoft body copy

The header: In this case, the header is just what the product is, which is likely the most appropriate approach for this audience.

The subheader: The subheader — or supporting header — focuses on the main benefit of the handbook. Clearly, MuleSoft knows its audience, and is giving it to them straight.

The body: It’s still laser-focused on those main benefits, giving visitors ample opportunity to become engaged.

Pro tip: A landing page is a pitch, and like any pitch, your job is to put forward your best offerings and do your best to secure a follow-up. If you’re struggling to prioritize your offerings, consider the following:

  • What does your product do, and how does it make your prospect’s life easier?
  • What are your product’s most ground-breaking or useful features?
  • Who does your product help?
  • How easy it is to get started?
  • Who else uses your product?

Here’s a great example from Startup Weekend. The body content answers all of the main questions, with no BS:

Startup Weekend landing page copy

Active words + “I want to…” + A/B testing = Winning CTA

Since we’re talking about no-fail copy, like blueprints for you to riff from, we’ll tell you straight up that the most common call to action phrase that makes it to live landing pages, is “Get started”. That’s followed closely by anything with the word “get” in it.

Why does ‘Get started’ work?

It needs to be clear that your call to action is where the next step happens. If you want serious leads, then the call to action button is not the place to test out your funniest one-liners. Just like the header and subheader, the call to action is active, it’s job is to create momentum.

“Get started” suggests a journey, it suggests self-improvement, which is probably why it works better than “Submit” or “Subscribe.” It could also be that “Get started” works because it finishes the sentence we’re thinking when a sign-up is close: “I want to… get started.”

Pro-tip: Best practices are best practices for a reason, but don’t use a “Get” CTA just because I suggested it. Do some research, craft a sound hypothesis and A/B test your button copy for maximum conversions.
Fluidsurveys CTA copy
FluidSurveys‘s button copy is active and timely.
Cheez burger CTA copy
Cheezburger pairs tried and true button copy with another one of our favorite words: free.
blab cake CTA copy
BlabCake uses a slightly different version of the “Get” formula for their coming soon page.

Conclusion

Let’s look at all of the formulas together:

  • Action words + Product reference = Winning headline
  • Your exact offering + Promise of ease = Winning subheader
  • Your best offerings + Worded in the form of benefit statements + Appropriate sectioning = Winning body content
  • Active words + ‘I want to…’ + A/B testing = Winning call to action

What you’ve got in these formulas, is the recipe for a basic vanilla sponge — the foundations of a successful landing page. Put them together and then — like any good marketer — your job becomes testing that landing page to see what works best for your audience.

What are your favorite copywriting formulas? Share ’em in the comments!

Original article – 

Simple Recipes for No-Fail Landing Page Copy [+ Free Downloadable Worksheet]

All the Recordings, Slides and Notes from Call to Action Conference 2016

Aaaaaaand that’s a wrap.

call-to-action-conference-2016-thank-you

Call to Action Conference 2016 may be over, but our heads are still spinning from all the enlightening things we learned and the boss people we met. With nearly 1K attendees and 21 speakers filling Vancouver’s most prestigious theater, I think we all left feeling a little overwhelmed.

… In a good way, of course. Like a food coma, but instead we’re filled with marketing learnings.

Here’s what some of the attendees had to say:

And then there was the networking, pub crawls, parties, human inflatable foosball, gondola tour, axe throwing (seriously), super cute swag…

And so much more. Actually, you can watch a quick recap here:

But enough with the FOMO-inducing brag. Here’s the real reason for this post.

Regardless of whether you were able to make it or not, we have some presents for you.

That’s right! Because you’re worth it.

call-to-action-conference-2016-high-five
Yaaaaaaaas.

We’ve got a bundle of resources for you: all the presentation recordings, slides and comprehensive notes (thanks Campaign Monitor!). Completely free.

Happy binge watching/reading. Hopefully you’ve already made it through the latest season of Orange is the New Black…

See original: 

All the Recordings, Slides and Notes from Call to Action Conference 2016

Never Bring an Opinion to a Data Fight: Day 1 of the Call to Action Conference

Why do people come to marketing conferences?

Some might say it’s for the networking, parties, workshops and insightful talks… or for more wacky stuff, like a money tornado booth, t-rex VR simulations and human inflatable foosball.

Testing out important conference equipment #CTAConf

A video posted by Dustin Bromley (@dustinjbromley) on

But some of the juiciest takeaways come from presentations about A/B tests that thought leaders are running, and how unexpected changes can yield big results.

… However, these aren’t always the kind of insights that will move the needle for your business. Without context — without your own data sets — these types of “takeaways” are really just opinions.

Telling your colleagues, “So-and-so changed their button copy to increase conversions, and I think we should do the same!” just won’t cut it anymore. As Orbit co-founder Andy Crestodina put it:

Never bring an opinion to a data fight. Because the highest-paid person’s opinion (HiPPO) always wins… unless you have data.

CI1KDeKUMAApabp Many of the talks at day one of the Call to Action Conference broke down processes and tips for being a more responsible data-driven marketer: Google Analytics reports you can run and templates for building a tracking plan.

Juicy. Here’s a taste.

We’ve become comfortably numb

Morgan Brown, COO of Inman News, thinks that marketers have become far too comfortably numb with the little data they have access to:

Even if you use Google Analytics, you’re still missing out on a large part of the picture.

Clicks, visitors and time on page provide you some insights, but if you can’t see your customer from the moment they touch your company — from the beginning to the end of the lifecycle — you’re flying blind. But whose job is it to dig into the data to ensure your team isn’t flying blind? Andy says it’s on everyone:

Analytics isn’t something that’s just one specialist’s responsibility.

That said, it doesn’t hurt to build a bomb-ass team to manage your data and growth. Morgan advises against hiring “another marketer.” Instead, bolster your growth team with individuals who live numbers — people who treat new customer acquisitions (and customer churn) with the same diligence as accounts receivables/payables.

Eventually, machines will tell us what’s important

As advancements in machine learning technology accelerate, we’re approaching an era where we won’t need to be so hands-on with data.

Machines will identify opportunities and provide testing recommendations for marketers, massively increasing the scale and impact of conversion optimization.

The future of marketing and conversion rate optimization, according to Unbounce co-founder Oli Gardner, is in megavariate testing — mass split tests hypothesized and deployed by machines. CTAs will automatically be positioned to where they’re most likely to be clicked. Videos will be placed for optimal interactions.

Imagine a Slack bot that sends you a message with an A/B test recommendation — just type “yes” to switch the test live. That’s the future.

But…

We’re not there yet, so start hoarding your data

According to Andy, fewer than 30% of small businesses are using analytics — and those who are proactive about collecting data will have the competitive advantage. Morgan urged attendees to track all activity happening on their websites:

Stuff it into a data warehouse and let it sit there. It’ll at least be there when you need it.

If you don’t have the bandwidth to set up that kind of tracking, Morgan suggests you should at the very least be documenting important user flows — end-to-end tracking of your customer’s lifecycle:

Don’t settle for anything less than complete waterfalls.

Don’t have the time or know-how to set that kind of stuff up? Tough, says Morgan. Bribe an engineer colleague or friend. (… Or, uh, steal Morgan’s Tracking Plan Blueprint here.)

Develop a culture of experimentation

Tracking and collecting data isn’t enough. Here’s how Andy put it:

When you look at your analytics dashboard in the morning, the line goes up and you smile. Or the line goes down and you frown. And then you go back to checking your email. But you need to take action.

Morgan agreed that you’ve got to just do it. He’s found that all rapidly growing companies (think Uber, Airbnb and Facebook) have one main thing in common: a culture of experimentation and aggressive optimization.

Rapid experimentation — and the accelerated learning that comes with it — is key to fast growth.

Behind every conversion

While it’s tempting to get swept up in data and numbers, Andre Morys (founder of Web Arts AG) reminds us that every conversion is the result of user motivation.

Yes, data can tell us a lot in terms of user behaviour, but user motivation is harder to distil down to pure numbers. It relates to an individual’s implicit goals (owning a BMW for status) versus their explicit goals (owning a vehicle for transportation needs).

In order to tap into these implicit goals, Andre suggests asking yourself, “Who is your customer? What real problem are you solving?”

Morgan opts for a slightly different route, instead using surveys — such as pricing surveys, net promoter score surveys and customer satisfaction surveys — to get a pulse on his customers and prospects.

Whatever the route you take, it’s important to not lose sight of the people behind the clicks.

Because at the end of the day, Morys reminds us, conversions are really just people.

Psst. There’s one day of the Call to Action Conference left and we don’t want you to miss out on any of the learnings — sign up for all the notes here.

Visit link – 

Never Bring an Opinion to a Data Fight: Day 1 of the Call to Action Conference

Julien Smith of Breather: I Was a Thought Leader Before a CEO [PODCAST]

julien-smith-cta-interview-650
One of Breather’s many breath-taking spaces. Image via Breather.com.

A lot of marketers become thought leaders by honing their skills in the trenches of their startup. Only once they’ve done their time and learned from their mistakes do they go on to secure speaking gigs and publish books.

But Julien Smith has had a bit of an unconventional marketing career. He flipped the above trajectory on its head, making a seemingly backwards transition from marketing thought leader to real-world marketer and CEO.

After many years of writing and speaking, Julien decided to stop telling marketers what to do and started showing them by founding a company of his own. Today, he is the CEO of Breather, a company that rents out private (and oh-so-very-zen) spaces.

In this episode of the Call to Action podcast, you’ll learn:

  • Why Julien initially made his book, The Flinch, available for free.
  • The single word that changed the way Breather was marketed, allowing the company to flourish and raise $1.5 million in funding.
  • What we can all learn from affiliate marketers, even though they’ve got a bit of a bad rap.

Listen to the podcast

Mentioned in the podcast

Read the transcript

Dan: You’ve done things a little bit differently than most people or most marketing thought leaders out there. Most people start out by building a company, if it’s successful maybe they start speaking about it, and maybe they write a book. But you did the complete opposite.

Julien: Yeah.

Dan: How did that happen?

Julien: Yeah, what happens is that there was a brief period around 2004, 2005 where I think there were like no internet celebrities of any kind. So there was a vacuum of internet celebrities and because of that…

Dan: Imagine we had that problem right now. What a beautiful problem to have.

Julien: Yeah, it’d be the exact opposite problem. Yeah, because there was a vacuum of internet celebrities you could basically do anything and kind of get an audience. Even if you had an awful blog or an awful podcast it didn’t matter because there was nothing to listen to and nothing to read on the internet. So that helped me get an audience. And the audience actually propelled everything because then you have an audience, so then when you have a blog it just gets read by a lot of people. Then you have an ebook, you have all the audience that you could send it to, and then that got published — sent over to Wiley and then Wiley was like, “Well, there’s no book on social media. We should get someone to write a book on social media.” And we got tapped to do that. So then I realized — started realizing what business was and then eventually I actually started one, yeah.

Dan: You were looking at our studio setup and I actually had forgotten that you had a podcast in the beginning, when we first decided to do this interview. Can you tell us a little bit about that show and what podcasting was like back in, what was it? 2005?

Julien: 2004. I started in November of 2004. It was the first podcast in the world. It’s very strange to say that, but it’s true. And because there were — all the shows were bad on the internet, I was sort of chosen, one of six people, to get my show on Sirius Satellite Radio. So a year in, because everyone else was like a 35-year-old dude from New England talking about beer probably, you know, and I was talking about — I had a completely different voice than most people. So, yeah, and just started propelling itself. It was really about being at the right place at the right time with the right, I guess, idea or something.

Dan: I wanna ask you about your book Trust Agents with Chris Brogan. I think it’s been like more than five years since that was published and that’s been really influential. I remember when I started out in this digital marketing space that was one of the books, along with maybe a couple others, that everybody was talking about. When you look back at that now, would you think it holds up?

Julien: I haven’t read it in a long time so I don’t know. But I could tell you that the things that we take for granted now — like it’s funny. I used to — I would read the book now and probably be like, “Oh, my god. This is so 101 and embarrassing.” But reality is, is that many of the tactics that we talked about in the book, this was the first time that they were ever talking about it. And now social media marketing is done that way, not just that way, but it’s very foundational things that we talked about for the first time are now done everywhere. So I think I would be pretty proud of that. But talking about how to tweet would probably be — I would probably cringe at things that I said that maybe I was very inspired to say back then, but now not so much.

Dan: Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, what seems obvious now actually was pretty mind-blowing at the time that you could build an audience, which you’ve done by creating relationships and leveraging those. I don’t know if that’s the thesis of the book, but I feel like that’s pretty close.

Julien: It’s true and it is something that really tells you a lot about how — when a new channel, or a platform, or a network is starting, you actually have enormous power during that time, right? So I was in the first 10,000 users of Twitter, right? As was Chris Brogan, my co-author on those two books, and…

Dan: Right, that’s why you have your first name as your handle.

Julien: That’s right, yeah. Yeah, @Julien. So then it was like, “Yeah, sure, fuck it. We’ll follow all these people.” And again, it’s a huge vacuum. So the same thing happened on medium, right, and may be probably still happening on medium. And new networks, when you join, if they’re gonna win, those networks, then you get an incredible cumulative advantage by starting early. And so if I was gonna propose that anyone start a business I would say find a place where it is super easy to gather the first 100 people. Another way of saying that is start with a place with low competition.

Dan: And for the networks that don’t pan out, there are some like Google Plus, thought leaders who bet on the wrong horse.

Julien: Yeah, I think it’s not about social media per se, it’s just like any place where you feel like there’s a trend coming, get in front of that trend way before it’s popular, get ridiculed for six months and then laugh your way all the way to the bank maybe.

Dan: I wanna ask you about your first — I think it was the first book that you wrote on your own, The Flinch. And you first made that available for free on Amazon. Thanks for that because that’s when I read it and it was a great book. What was the thinking behind just putting that out there for free and why did you ultimately decide to charge for it?

Julien: Yeah, so what started is — that book was written by basically me and edited by Seth Godin, who’s a pretty well-known marketing writer. And so he said a few things to me which were super pivotal. It was a super short book, it was like 10,000 words, right? And so he said, “1) I want you to know that you’re never gonna be able to write anything this visceral ever again. You’re never gonna have that opportunity.” And so he goes, “I want you to…” — he would send me edits back and those edits, he would be like, “Is this really the best you can do?” And I’d be like, “Fuck, it isn’t, shit.”

Dan: And Seth Godin saying that to you is powerful.

Julien: Yeah, it’s murder, yeah. And I remember screaming at a friend of mine just about, “I don’t know what to do! I don’t know how to make this better!” But the result is a super sharable book. So the natural thing to do then, as Godin said, “I can’t make you a millions bucks but I can probably get you a million people that will look at it.” And so there’s actually no free books on Amazon that are perpetually free. It almost never happens. So he did a deal with some early dude at Amazon and said, “We’d like to make this book perpetually free, like free forever.” So it was free for years. So every year when people would open their Kindle on Christmas they would be like, “Oh, where are the books that we’re gonna get?” And they’d find my free book.

Dan: Right. Next to all of the like Socrates and…

Julien: Yeah, literally. Yeah, and The Bible, you know. And mine is a faster read than that. So again, it was about a unique opportunity to create enormous distribution very quickly. And so when I did that, I mean in the first day it was read by — or downloaded at least, by something like 50,000 to 75,000 people. And eventually it was actually not about us. I would keep it free and it stayed free for years. And if you still “Google Flinch PDF” right now, you can get it in PDF form for free. But at some point, I don’t know, the rules changed at Amazon or something and it ended up being $2.00. So now you pay $2.00 to get it on Kindle. But it definitely — making it free was a tactic to create audience and advantage and get, what I thought to be pretty important work, and certainly the best work that I’d ever written, to be seen by as many people as possible.

Dan: Well, it’s a tactic that’s really familiar to conversion centered marketers and people who are doing lead gen, certainly a lot of our customers that use landing pages to promote free ebooks, you just don’t usually see that at the Amazon like 10,000 word book level. But same principle so it makes sense. And as a discovery tool for you it sounds like.

Julien: For sure. Yeah, and that’s actually what you’re saying is like at the core you’re the product, you the person that’s writing. Or maybe you’re the initial product and then behind you there’s like a company or something. And so you’re — what are you doing? You’re gathering links maybe. And so, okay, so then your game is gathering links, or your game is gathering page views and trying to optimize your front page to get subscribers or whatever the game is, but you need a pretty massive funnel. And for me the massive funnel was being there really early and giving stuff away for free when it was seldom done.

Dan: Well, I do wanna ask you about your company. But first I want to… I guess bring up your past a little bit more, make you flinch so to speak. Rumor has it that you had a stint running affiliate marketing campaigns for clients at some point. And I know affiliate marketing gets a bad rap among marketing circles, but I do recognize that a lot of the techniques that have started, or who have found their way to more mainstream marketers and bigger companies and bigger agencies have started in the affiliate world. What did that experience teach you?

Julien: As I think back on it now, I learnt an important lesson about kind of winner-take-all markets. All internet markets are basically winner take all and as you begin to accumulate attention or capital or whatever, it begins to get more and more powerful over time and it becomes really undefeatable, or very difficult to beat. So I’ve definitely used that to help me at Breather, my current company. But at the time, basically, I just ran giant amounts of SEO plays in different verticals and I became really dominant in a bunch of them. And actually, it’s pretty interesting. Psychologically when you’re an entrepreneur, a big thing that you kind of want to do because you’ve worked so hard is really pat yourself on the back. And I remember patting myself on the back and being like, “I won.” And in actuality, even though I was doing really well, I had not won and I had made a crucial error of thinking that the game was over or something. And so for years I ran really successful, kind of like performance marketing in the background of everything I was doing, podcasting and writing books and other things like that, and it was definitely super influential and it created the initial investment for Breather, actually, before it was ever venture capital backed. But it was amazing experience and way to learn about how to run something and make it work.

Dan: So when you say that you feel like you had won, what do you mean by that?

Julien: I was ranking No. 1 for everything. And when you’re ranking No. 1 for everything the next thing you wanna do is you wanna make another website and rank two for everything as well, right?

Dan: Right.

Julien: And then you’re like, “Okay, well, now I’m gonna rank No. 3.” But it’s actually pretty interesting because you can see your competitors literally coming up in the search rankings as well. And this is true just — you can watch… we watch our competitors at Breather and we’re like, “How many units do they have? Okay.” And it’s kind of a gauge. And in search marketing it would be like, how ranked are they compared to me? And I saw people kind of progressively coming up and I was like, “Oh, they’re never gonna beat me.” I was wrong. And actually it shows you that most of the game, a lot of the game in entrepreneurship, is actually a psychological game that you play with yourself.

Dan: Sounds like you were winning, for a while at least, at SEO game and you were doing really well on the speaker circuit and you had these bestselling books and you were working with Seth Godin as an editor, which actually I wanna ask you a lot more about, but maybe another time. What made you decide to start your own company?

Julien: Yeah, so after you write three books, I was noticing — all your friends become the other guys who write books because we’re all on the road all the time. And so we’d be in the same hotels, maybe in adjacent hotel rooms or something, and being like, “Where are you going now? Oh, Nashville, okay, what’s there?” You know? So I would notice these people that had these careers that were essentially kind of writing the same book over and over and over again. And I think if you look at your marketing library — anyone who’s listening to this can probably do this. They could look over their marketing library, and I hope that you see my books there, but even if not, you’ll notice that the authors tend to produce essentially one idea and then produce an iteration on that idea. And they’ll do that over and over and over again, right? Good to great, great to last, whatever the next one is. Too big to fail, whatever it is. And at some point I was like, “Is this really the best that I can do?” And maybe it’s Godin talking back to me and being really interested in space and in trends of how cities were getting denser and all these things. And at one point I just kind of combined software and physical locations and it occurred to me that I could build something that was really meaningful. And it was kind of a longshot when I started, but it turned out pretty well so far.

Dan: What was the hardest part of that transition from marketing thought leader to real world marketer and CEO?

Julien: The fact that I had never really done anything or gotten my hands dirty at all. And so you actually…

Dan: Had you realized that before you started doing it?

Julien: I knew that there was a chance that I was just a talker and not a doer. And so I was like, “Okay, well, I just wrote a book…” like we just talked about, I wrote a book, i.e. The Flinch which is a book about doing hard things. And I was like, “If I see this opportunity and I’m not willing to do it, then what kind of low level hypocrite am I that I am not willing to take my own advice?” So I knew that what I was doing was hard and there was a high chance that I would fail and that I’d never actually succeeded or be in what they call an operator before. And so that was definitely — it was a very comfortable life to write a book a year and then get flown places and get paid speaking fees to talk for 45 minutes.

Dan: Did that prepare you in any way, though, for the challenges of heading up a fast growing company?

Julien: The part that it prepared me for most is that I became much more experienced at the high level aspects of being a leader. Because you have to say things with authority, you have to lead groups of people, you have to talk to them compellingly, you have to be able to detect trends and be able to talk about trends. The communication aspects of being a CEO take over, over time. And now I have 100 employees, right? So communicating is one of the largest parts of my job. So from fundraising to knowing all the investors because I was on the circuit with them and all these things, it was definitely helpful early on and still continues to be helpful today.

Dan: Right. I guess as the company gets bigger and bigger, you find yourself a little bit going back into that leadership role or big picture thought leader role in the company. And now you have people that do a lot of the doing so it’s back to motivating and…

Julien: Yeah, but at least I proved to myself that I could do.

Dan: Yeah, well, we’ve been talking kind of high level and I wanna get a little more tactical for a moment. Because I read that in the early days of Breather, we’re copyrighting junkies here and thought this was really cool, that one simple word changed the way that Breather was marketed early on. I thought that was actually a huge pivot point in your business. Can you tell us what that word is and why you think it was so effective?

Julien: Yeah, the word was private, right? And so, just to give you a sense of context, for many of you I’m sure that don’t know what my company does, Breather is a network of rooms. The same way that Uber is a network of cars and Airbnb is a network of homes, we’re a network of basically office spaces, or meeting spaces. And it became really clear early on that it’s basically impossible to sell privacy as a service. This room, if it was not in your office, would be as impossible to find, impossible to book, and impossible to get reliably. And so I was like, “Oh, but there’s these electronic locks.” And it was about the technology and the technology enabled people to get in, but what it was really about is a core value and a core need that people have, which is just to get away from people and to be able to get quiet. And it was weird to be able to say that I sell privacy and I sell quiet, but I do. In a really loud world and in really dense cities I sell quiet and private space.

Dan: That is a big risk, taking that bet on privacy though, because I feel like so many other companies are banking on the fact that people don’t care about privacy anymore.

Julien: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, and so sometimes — because it’s a private room, of course, and it’s bookable by the hour, you come to the conclusion which I’ve heard like a million times, “Come on. But what is really happening, wink, wink, in these rooms?” And the reality is, is when you are really behind something and you say, “We’re selling privacy,” you actually have to say that and you have to be like, “The reality is, is it’s none of your business what happens in people’s rooms, just like it’s probably none of your business what happens in people’s phones,” you know? And so selling that is very valuable to us and we really treasure it and it’s something that we think is very important to human beings, you know?

Dan: Yeah, and also you don’t create something out of fear that they’re gonna use it the wrong way.

Julien: Right. You don’t jump — you don’t not create the subway because someone might jump in front of it.

Dan: Right.

Julien: You create the subway and then you deal with the consequences afterwards.

Dan: Right. Just to provide context, what was that switch that — what was the original tagline and how did the word private replace it?

Julien: It actually was the key for us. We didn’t even know how to pitch ourselves up until the day of our launch, which was in — we’d launched the company at a conference in London and then I asked one of my developers at the time, “What is the tagline for this thing?” And he was like, “Dude, it’s just peace and quiet on demand. It’s peace and quiet on demand.” And we’ve been using peace and quiet on demand like it was an accidental phrase. I find…

Dan: You asked one of your developers what your tagline was?

Julien: Yeah, I don’t know why I did that, but it turned out — and it was very plain spoken, which is really important, right?

Dan: Yeah, true.

Julien: So to me the most important thing is that something be memorable and be able to be plain spoken so that anyone can go, “Oh, yeah.” Just like when I write I go, “I want to write the way people talk so that it’s very digestible.” We discovered that privacy was the core value proposition, like literally at the last minute.

Dan: As opposed to…?

Julien: We were just like, “These are great rooms. You should use them.” Before you have the simplicity of an idea, you actually, usually, are gonna say it in a super complex, annoying way. And that’s what we did. We said it in a super complex, annoying way until we discovered that the key value was probably privacy.

Dan: That probably circled back to why you had the idea in the first place and why you thought it was valuable for yourself, right?

Julien: Yeah, exactly.

Dan: And…

Julien: And yet, even though it’s right in front of you, it’s very hard to distill somehow. So then when we got to it, we’ve never gone back since then.

Dan: Right. You have to have this spark of an idea then once you start doing the doing and raising capital and put together a company, it’s easy to get away from that original…

Julien: And the other part of that is actually the name Breather, is actually a flash of insight that I happened to have. Because this name — the company could be going terribly just because the name was different. The name really defines what it is, which is a short breath or a short rest. And the word is really only ever used in that circumstance, right? And so it’s a very unique word that really quite accurately, and yet kind of like obliquely, describes what we do and that is very memorable and easy for people to know and say.

Dan: Right. And becomes a noun, like I’m booking an Uber, I’m booking an Airbnb, I’m booking a Breather.

Julien: That’s right.

Dan: So Breather is hiring like crazy these days and obviously that goes beyond the marketing team, but I’m curious what your vision was for scaling up that marketing team. As a marketer I’m sure it’s something that you’ve thought, particularly about and how’s that going so far?

Julien: Yeah, so we have — we must have 10 people on our marketing team or something, right now. And the vision for it that I said before we ever had any marketing team members was that it should act like an agency. And so because we have different cities and the cities open different units and they have to serve different populations, let’s say therapists use it a lot in New York, but actors use it a lot in L.A. or something like that. Then you’re gonna have segments that you’re speaking to in different demographics. So we created an agency with the purpose of being able to really work as an agency for a number of different clients. And then these clients essentially send briefs into the marketing department and say like, “Okay, so here’s what’s happening. We have this unit, it’s in SoHo. The unit in SoHo is like this. It’s interesting because these things. Build us something around that.” And then they’ll gather together, we get a creative team, we get digital people, we get design people, and they gather together and they do a sprint or they work on the creative to get it right. And we’ve been able to build a good team from great companies based on this principle.

Dan: So your clients in this case would be like city managers and operations people?

Julien: That’s right. Yeah, yeah, so our operations are like Uber. We have operations in every city led by general managers that are really focused on just getting supply and getting demand. And that’s very on the ground, very much like Uber and not at all like Airbnb, right? So then those people have needs and they don’t have the specialization that marketing has. They wouldn’t know how to sell their own space necessarily, they just know how to go out and get it and then make it nice and so on.

Dan: So you’re not necessarily organizing the marketing team geographically, it’s based around these different personas and user types?

Julien: Yeah, personas, user types, and they are helped by the fact that localization is really important. So it’s…you would not wanna confuse Long Island and Long Island City, right? Anyone who’s a New Yorker knows that. Anyone who’s not in New York does not know what the difference is. So the localization and that part of it is super important and the general skill set that you gather by being able to sell, basically 100 times, 100 different units, hopefully 100 cities, is very valuable, too.

Dan: And I guess the personas are informed by geography because you don’t have a lot of surfers in New York and bankers in L.A.

Julien: Right.

Dan: What advice would you have for other fast growing companies looking to scale their marketing teams really, really quickly?

Julien: Yeah, the irony is that in fact you must be extremely slow or you’re probably gonna fuck it up. The hiring is — I think you guys know this. Like at Unbounce you have a great team, talent knows talent and knows when it’s absent, and the gravity of a team produces more and more gravity as more team members come in. This happened with my data science team. It’s like one good guy led to a second amazing guy and then when you have two amazing guys then the third guy is much easier to grab and so on. So ironically, I think my marketing team is actually the slowest hiring of any of them, but the consequence of that is that they have tremendous gravity and respect and they build an amazing camaraderie because they really respect each other and are respected by everyone else and every other department.

Dan: So your advice for growing a marketing team quickly is don’t.

Julien: Well, I mean, you — choose things that scale. And continuously experiment as time goes on, right? And so, yeah, we’re still a series B company. We’re still super early in learning about everything that we do, but we have a very good start and it’s led by people that really are profoundly motivated about working on this problem.

Dan: What do you think your marketing team’s gonna look like a year from now?

Julien: I suspect it’s gonna be way, way larger. So it spans many geos, it…but we’re at the core. I think what you’re gonna do is you’re just gonna have to develop over time a reputation for good work. And if you have a reputation for good work, then people will wanna work with you.

Dan: Well, I think that’s an inspiring note to end on. Thanks so much, Julien, for coming in and chatting.

Julien: Well, thanks for having me.


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Julien Smith of Breather: I Was a Thought Leader Before a CEO [PODCAST]

How Unbounce’s Marketing Team Grew From 1 to 31 [PODCAST]

Hey podcast listeners! You can listen to all previous episodes of the Call to Action podcast on our brand-spankin’ new episode hub here.

Imagine being one of the only marketers on the team at a budding startup.

You need to know the best practices for all sorts of campaigns: paid, content, social, email, partnerships… the list goes on. What’s more, you’re responsible for both strategy and execution (no matter how brilliant you are, there are only 24 hours in a day… and fewer if you want to, y’know, sleep).

full-stack-marketing-650
That’s a lot of hats to wear. Image source.

Sound like a nightmare? Well, it was the reality for Georgiana Laudi back when Unbounce was just a baby company. Today, she is the VP of Marketing and has watched the department grow to have more than 30 employees.

And while the role was surely stressful (wearing a lot of hats can make you look goofy), Gia’s hands-in-everything position taught her a lot about being a marketer and a manager.

In this episode of the Call to Action podcast, Gia gives her take on:

  • The ideal time for teams to start moving away from hiring “full-stack” marketers and toward creating a larger team of specialists
  • Why Unbounce held off on performance marketing for so long in favor of an inbound marketing strategy
  • How marketing teams can do a better job empowering women on their team to start a family without feeling like they’re compromising their careers

Listen to the podcast

Mentioned in the podcast

  • Call to Action theme music brought to you by the great folks at Wistia.

Read the transcript

Gia: Hi, I’m Georgiana Laudi and I’m the VP Marketing at Unbounce.

Dan: I believe today is actually your fourth Unniversary, as we like to say at Unbounce. So I was thinking, let’s start at the very beginning just to provide some context. What were you doing before you started at Unbounce?

Gia: I was consulting, actually. I was doing web marketing for some startups and some mid-sized businesses in Montreal. I had been doing that for about two years. I was also running a couple of tech events in the city and was pretty active in the technology community and startup community in Montreal, which helped, obviously, to sort of feed my freelance gigs and keep me very, very busy.

Dan: What enticed you to move all the way across the country and join a young, fledgling startup?

Gia: It’s funny because I actually didn’t think of Unbounce as that young then because I was working with a lot of startups that were significantly younger and smaller. I saw a job posting that was shared on Twitter, and the job posting was just so compelling. And I had been wanting to try Unbounce for clients for a while. I had already heard about it and was considering using it. I wasn’t using landing pages at the time. And then basically what I did was I worked from Montreal for four months before moving. So I did do a little bit of due diligence there.

And then I went out to visit the office. There were only about 15 people in the office at the time and everybody there was super enthusiastic, super smart, super in love with the product. Unbounce’s customers also really sold me on joining because they were super vocal about how amazing their experience had been with both customer success and how much they loved the product. So it was just those two things combined. I felt like there was actually a ton of momentum already.

And I kind of regretted not getting on board sooner, to be honest — like I was late to the party, a bit. Yeah, that was when there were 15 people and obviously, there are a lot more than that now.

Dan: I guess the company was already a couple years old, though, wasn’t it?

Gia: It was almost two years but they hadn’t actually –my understanding is they didn’t actually make their first hire until a year in. So many of the employees – there was an early developer, and Ryan (Engley) and Jacquelyn (Ma) were actually one of the first three employees, and they only started about six months before me. So it actually hadn’t been that long that they’d been hiring.

Dan: One of the benefits of having six cofounders is they’re able to be independent for a while.

Gia: For much longer, yes.

Dan: There’s a story floating around about one of our cofounders driving your car across the country. Do you know what I’m getting at, here?

Gia: I do.

Dan: So it’s true.

Gia: It is true. And actually, the part of that story that you’re missing is that he actually crashed my car. I don’t even know if a lot of people know about this. It was basically – I mentioned my early-on visit to Vancouver and to HQ. And during the negotiation process of discussing whether or not I was going to join the team, I raised the big issue: all my stuff and my car are on the other side of the country. We didn’t have these hiring and relocation budgets back then so yeah, Oli basically offered to drive my car from Montreal to Vancouver.

And I think just as he hit the Ontario border… did he roll it? No, I don’t think he rolled it but it spun out. Anyway, it was pretty bad and he was delayed – I was already in Vancouver. So it actually took him a month longer to get my car fixed.

Dan: What? He didn’t get very far if he was just at the Ontario border.

Gia: No, he had only been driving like 45 minutes. It was pretty bad.

Dan: That’s funny. Well, it probably wasn’t funny at the time but it’s pretty funny now.

Gia: No, it wasn’t funny. It took about a couple of weeks to be funny. It was funny to everyone shortly thereafter, but at the moment, no. It wasn’t funny at all.

Dan: Fair enough. So what was it like being the first full-time, full-stack marketer on the team?

Gia: Busy. Really, really busy. Like I said, when I had first visited and first met the team — everybody being so in love with what they were doing and so dedicated to what they were doing — it was just sort of par for the course that we all just worked like crazy and we loved it. So I did a lot of evenings and a lot of weekends for the first year and a half, two years. I remember it being surprising to me when people would leave the office at 5. When that started to happen, that was a moment in the history of the company. Like wow, people are going home for dinner. What a concept! Or I should say 5 or 6.

But yeah, it was really intense but it was great because the stakes were really high. There was a ton of ownership. If we did really well, it directly reflected the work you were doing. If we did poorly, well, you had to own up to that, too. It was sort of this environment of learning. It was really, really cool actually, and super rewarding. The immediate results of hard work were the best reward for that.

Dan: Do you remember the moment when it became clear that you needed to hire more staff?

Gia: Yeah. That was sort of baked in just because of the nature of the company and how quickly we were growing. We knew that within not a very long time, we would be growing out this team. That was always sort of the plan. It was just a matter of articulating a job posting, to be honest. I think I made the first hire in marketing within nine months of joining the company. The blog was – and still is – a large percentage of the efforts being made within the marketing department were focused on the blog, and big marketing, big content stuff.

What we were posting at the time was two or three times a week. I wanted to amp it up to five because what I had seen was a lot of our acquisition was largely coming from our content marketing and largely from the blog itself. So I wanted to amp it up to sort of run a test. I started doing that, Oli and myself, we went up to about five. So I started inviting a lot of contributing authors to the blog. But you know as well as I do, that is like almost more work than it does save it.

So yeah, we put a job posting up and that was actually the role that Stefanie Grieser was hired for. I brought her on to help with social and the blog management. So the three of us sort of went nuts on blog.

Dan: She’s now our International Marketing Manager, Stef.

Gia: Yeah, exactly. Stef’s been around since the early days, too. And so has Corey because actually, Corey was hired only a few months after Stef was and that was mainly because it became so obvious that our analytics were suffering. I don’t even know that we had GA properly installed on our website. That’s how chicken-with-my-head-cut-off it was. That’s how we were operating the department: just like one campaign after the next.

It was all about getting people to try Unbounce so even the foundational stuff hadn’t really happened yet. So that’s when we brought on Corey, too, to start thinking more about performance and funnel-type driven marketing. Yeah, that actually was three years ago at the end of this month.

Dan: Do you remember what your vision was for how you would build out the team from there?

Gia: Yeah, I remember early on looking to Moz and Rand (Fishkin), actually. The Moz blog — then SEO Moz — had a couple of posts about how to build to a marketing team and I remember one that sort of resonated with me, which was – I don’t remember what the post said, exactly. But what I got out of it was I had sort of imagined a marketing team broken into four. And so strategic partnerships and business development was a huge, huge part of our success for marketing in the marketing team at the time, as was our content marketing, as was our performance type marketing (so like funnel-focused stuff), which we were sorely lacking, like I mentioned why we hired Corey.

And then also social and PR; I saw a big opportunity for that, too. And so those were going to be sort of the four pillars that I had planned to build out on. I sort of went with okay, let’s find the team leads for these four areas to build out and those were my first four hires, including yourself, Dan.

Dan: Yeah. That was just a little more than two years ago. Now we have more than 30 people on our marketing team.

Gia: Yeah, like 32 or something.

Dan: Oh, man. When you think back to that original vision, how different does it look?

Gia: So yeah, it looks very different than it did. The vision that I’m describing is super early days and now – when the company was like 30 people. Now, at like 130 people, nearly, obviously with the addition of people comes the addition of ideas. And I don’t mean just within the marketing department but the whole organization has really changed in terms of direction and recognizing different opportunities. And so actually, what we’ve recently done, actually as of just this year but it’s been in talks for obviously the past couple months. We’ve actually turned towards a more tribe approach.

And what I mean by tribe is squads and chapters. I won’t get into the details of obviously how tribes work, but the organization itself made the decision a while ago that we would attempt a more tribe structure for our department. So the product team, engineering teams – obviously, it’s sort of an engineering approach, this tribe structure. And the marketing team has adopted this, as well, recently. And what we’ve done is we’ve laid it on top of our customer journey. So we now have teams dedicated to different parts of our customer journey.

So as opposed to those four areas of focus that I was describing, we actually have teams dedicated to the different phases that our customer would go through when adopting our tool.

Dan: Right, from awareness to evaluation to growth and expansion.

Gia: Yes, exactly.

Dan: What’s been the biggest challenge for you going from a full-stack marketer team of one who was intimately involved in everything from strategy to execution for pretty much all our marketing campaigns and content, to a managerial VP role?

Gia: Wow, there have been a lot of challenges. The most obvious, though, is communicating that larger strategy and vision when you’re one person, really only comes down to – for instance for me it was, “Can I get Rick (Perreault) on board and can I get Oli on board?” And they were the only two founders that I really needed to get full alignment with on my strategy. Other departments too, of course but only at the highest level. I only had to worry about myself. Obviously communicating a vision and strategy to a larger and growing team becomes increasingly difficult, especially as you add new members.

There was a certain point where we were adding new members on a biweekly and monthly basis. So aligning everyone, obviously, can be pretty challenging. I think that’s challenging for any growing team. Brainstorms were a great way, early on, to determine whether or not everybody was on the same page. So we would often run campaign brainstorms. And after those — I was rarely even the one running them — but I would attend with great benefit to know, “We’re way out of whack on this. We need to do a better job of communicating our strategy” or “Hey, great, we’re all on board.”

Because it would come out at the tactical level — it became obvious whether or not we were all on the same page or not. One of the things that’s been to my advantage is that I’m the type to provide feedback really early and often and immediately, which I think has been really useful for – I mean at the individual level. But also, because I did basically all of these jobs at some point, I have context that I think paired with relying on people’s specialties, which now the people on the team know way, way more about their individual areas than I will ever hope to know.

So pairing that context — that historical context — I think is of a huge advantage now, too. Because I can sort of get into the nitty gritty with everybody as I need to and I’m super happy to back out and let people lead the way. But I have a lot of that early sort of context. So I don’t know. It’s been hard to let go but it’s been so rewarding to let go at the same time.

Dan: Right. It’s got to be tricky to do sometimes to give that feedback, to be that involved and that direct with your communications at every step without coming off and feeling like a backseat driver, I would think.

Gia: Yeah, for sure. Earlier days, I had a way harder time with that for sure. But when it’s a smaller team, it’s an easier process. When you’re like five or six or 10, then everybody is sort of on the same path. But as you’re out to 30 or so, everybody’s got their own goals and their own focuses so I have a way easier time now than I did. Earlier days, I was way, more intimately involved, obviously. And now, I’m super content to let people – you know, you tell me how this should be done. Everybody’s been so, so amazing and enthusiastic and self motivated that it’s been easy.

Dan: One of the great advantages that I see — just to remove the fourth wall for a moment – within this new structure where I’ve also found myself in a bit more of a holistic role rather than in the weeds, is to make sure that you’re there. And we know that you’re there as a resource. Not necessarily as a bottleneck but that you have that expertise and that institutional knowledge. And I think that’s a really unique, valuable role to have within a team.

Gia: Yeah, totally. I’m totally down to get into the weeds whenever needed, and totally happy to stay out of them when it’s appropriate. So it’s just removing the lockers is really satisfying, too, to be in a position where I can remove those bottlenecks or help get things out of the way so people can move forward. That’s also a really rewarding part of being in this more holistic position as opposed to execution.

Dan: Do you think there’s an opportunity to keep growing within a team without giving up the full-stack marketer, have-your-hands-in-everything role, even as you get more senior?

Gia: That has actually probably been my biggest struggle, I’d say. Two of my four years was exactly that. I was struggling with management track versus individual contributor track. And as a generalist, you tend to end up on the management track. Unless you’re going to specialize, that’s just sort of the natural thing you end up in. There are like the Michael Aagaards of the world, who are senior, individual contributors. They’re masters of their craft. So as a full-stack marketer, I think it’s pretty tough to end up as an individual contributor doing executional sort of work like that.

As opposed to if you’re full stack and you have a wider, reaching perspective on your goals and your team’s goals, let’s say. You’d have to stay on a small team and begin the type of role where you get to wear lots of hats. But as soon as you get into a department of 20, 30 people, no, you need to start hiring more of those specialists, individual contributors. That level of expertise is just required at that stage. So yeah, I think it does come down to those two different professional tracks: management versus individual contribution.

Dan: At the same time, you wouldn’t want a Michael Aagaard to stop doing CRO and start managing a team. So I think to provide that path, yeah, you could keep growing your expertise, you could become more senior, your salary could evolve with you without feeling like you’re being taken away from what you’re good at. I think that’s really important.

Gia: Yeah, totally. And that’s the big struggle. We’re picking on Michael Aagaard, here, but it wouldn’t be unheard of for Michael to have a team. But that’s a decision that he has to make at a certain point: am I going to focus more on the management and professional development of my team and less on the actual fun, conversion rate optimization work? That’s a decision you have to make at some point.

It might be something he’s absolutely looking to do, and it might be: no, I don’t want to get into management; I’m not into the operational side of things. A lot of developers end up at this point in their professional careers and the same is true in any marketing department.

Dan: Yeah, I think it’s true almost anywhere. I think of the amazing teacher in school who gets promoted to principal and doesn’t make a particularly good principal, and then you lose that amazing, inspiring teacher. I think at any institution or organization, it’s important to think about these things and to map out those different paths. So you went on maternity leave about a year and a half ago, and you’re expecting your second child in the next few months. Any advice for other marketing teams on – first of all, congratulations! I should say that. I’ve told you before, but now that it’s on record…

So any advice for other marketing teams on how to plan for and manage a smooth transition when a senior member of the team, particularly the marketing director, goes on leave?

Gia: Yeah. I was gone for eight months, and I knew that I wouldn’t be gone for the full year. And I remember these early discussions with Rick and Oli and Corey trying to distribute responsibilities. And we made a lot of mistakes, to be honest. One of which was relying on somebody within the team with their own responsibilities to take over mine, as well, with the expectation that people outside the department would lend a hand when needed. But in retrospect, that was a really bad idea because especially in a company growing as quickly as Unbounce, people are very, very busy.

They’ve got their own problems to solve and depending on three people to fill in on one person’s role was a big mistake and we know that now. Advice? Now I’m in a position again where I’m trying to do sort of the same thing. One of the things that Leslie in HR has been really helpful with driving home and insisting that a very clear role is defined and that there’s a person in place to represent you in your absence. So there’s one person who is responsible for the entirety of your role and responsibilities.

And so they sort of operate as your stand-in in your absence. In the absence of having somebody doing that, you run the risk of causing a lot of confusion when you return, causing a lot of confusion around where your roles and responsibilities fall when you come back. To be honest with you, we didn’t get it right necessarily the first time. I’m hoping we get closer this time. As I talk to a lot of women who have gone on maternity leave, this is a much larger issue, obviously, and I could probably do a podcast about this topic on its own.

But roles will always change in your absence, especially with a growing company. So there’s no surefire way to assure you’re going to come back to the exact, same role, and that you’re going to

Dan: Yeah, and a company where roles change so quickly anyway.

Gia: Yeah, exactly. And you’re trying to take care of your team in your absence, especially when you’re in a management role. But yeah, we do the best we can and I don’t have a ton more to add to that, to be honest.

Dan: Fair enough. How do you think marketing teams could do better in empowering the women on their team to dive into family life without feeling like they’re letting their team down or compromising their career somehow?

Gia: Yeah, that’s a great question. There are a lot of things organizations can do in order to make it a little bit less scary for people to exit their roles. And it’s not just women. Some men decide to go on parental leave just as often as women. I know lots of cases where the guy will leave for months at a time. It remains true; any type of leave is something to contend with and manage, particularly though when we’re talking about gender. There are some biases that have worked into the way businesses are run.

And so there are a lot of things that can be done to remove those biases. Like there are standardization approaches to performance reviews. Again, this is not my area of expertise; I am not HR by any means. You’d be way better off talking to somebody like Leslie (Collin) for something like this. But I think standardizing the approach can help because it does aid in removing bias. And then yeah, what I was talking about before, making sure someone is representing you in your absence is another really important piece to it, whether you’re a guy or a girl or whatever.

Gender doesn’t really come into it. It’s just anybody who is on leave — there are lots of reasons to go on leave. So having yourself represented when you’re not there I think relieves a lot of reintegration problems when you return.

Dan: Right. There’s the question of reintegration but there’s also, I think, feeling confident about going on leave without feeling guilty about it. It sounds like it’s a problem when these things aren’t clearly defined ahead of time.

Gia: Yeah, it’s inevitable that feeling guilty would be a problem for certain types of individuals, particularly at a company where people love their team as much as we do at Unbounce. We believe so heavily in the company and what it stands for, and the founders and our coworkers and our work that anybody leaving that environment will inevitably feel some sort of guilt for – not abandoning ship, but you know what I mean.

Dan: It’s almost like a negative symptom of a really positive culture.

Gia: Yeah, exactly. I can speak for myself that, yeah, it was really hard to leave. When I was on leave, I was like, yeah, nothing fell apart. Everybody’s still there and still happy and still operating, which was so amazing from the outside to look back in for those eight months and know that everything was running along. Of course it wasn’t running 100 percent smoothly, but things aren’t running 100 percent smoothly now, either. But it was really rewarding to know that everything didn’t fall apart in your absence, kind of thing.

Dan: We’re glad to have you back and we have your back when you go away again, so don’t you worry.

Gia: Thanks, Dan.

Dan: Thank you, Gia. This was great to chat.

Gia: Yeah, for sure.

 


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How Unbounce’s Marketing Team Grew From 1 to 31 [PODCAST]